North East Reference Group
Minutes of Meetings


Mr P Hamilton, Convenor of Greater Glasgow Health Council (Chair)
Dr J Armstrong,  Project Director, North East Outline Business Case
Ms M Boyle, Chief Executive, North Glasgow University Hospitals NHS Trust
Dr I Brown, GP, Fernbank Medical Centre
Dr B Devine, Medical Staff Association, GRI
Dr F Dunn, Medical Staff Association, Stobhill Hospital
Mrs P Ferguson, MSP, Glasgow, Maryhill
Mr B Fitzpatrick, MSP, Strathkelvin & Bearsden
Mr B Goudie, Partnership Forum, North Glasgow University Hospitals NHS Trust         
Mr B Hendrie, Partnership Forum, North Glasgow University Hospitals NHS Trust
Ms N Humphries, East End Social Inclusion Partnership
Mr R Hunter, Townhead Community Council
Mr F McAveety, MSP, Shettleston
Mrs M McNaughton,  Bishopbriggs Community Council
Ms Pauline McNeil, MSP, Glasgow, Kelvin
Mr J McVicar, North Glasgow Community Forum
Mr B May, Greater Glasgow Health Council
Dr P Ryan, GP, Glenmill Medical Centre
Mr C J Spry, Chief Executive, Greater Glasgow Health Board
Ms S White, MSP, Glasgow
Mrs P Duncan, Secretariat, North Glasgow Reference Group       
Mrs J Reilly, Secretariat, North Glasgow Reference Group
Dr I Brown, GP, Frenbank Medical Centre
Mr P Martin, MSP,
Mrs J Wilson, Balgrayhill Community Council







(i)    Revised Options

The group considered the revised options to be appraised for the north and east which had been amended by Mr C J Spry to reflect the discussions which took place at the Reference Group's July meeting.   Members welcomed that all of the options had been amended to make clear that each would encompass an ACAD development on the Stobhill site.  In considering the options put forward by Mr Spry, the group also took account of a submission from Dr Frank Dunn which suggested amendments to Options C and D.   The group noted that Dr Dunn's submission had been discussed and endorsed by the Stobhill Medical Association. The group agreed that Dr Dunn's suggested wording for Option C was essentially a reworded version of what was proposed by Mr Spry.  Nevertheless, the consensus was that the terms used in Dr Dunn's version were simpler and, as such, should be used.  Miss M Boyle highlighted that the version drafted by Mr Spry offered a number of discreet choices within Option C and that these would provide a clearer basis for the scoring exercise (Workshop C).   Accordingly, Miss Boyle made clear that any decision by the Reference Group to bring these sub options together as one would make that process extremely difficult. The group noted Miss Boyle's comments, but, nevertheless, agreed to proceed with Option C as outlined above.

The group also considered Dr Dunn's suggested Option D which proposed "This would be the same as Option C with the exception that it would be a totally new hospital at Stobhill which would incorporate the ACAD. This appraisal would include consideration of an alternative site for Stobhill to allow the old hospital to continue to function during the period of building". The Group concluded that the proposal of identifying an alternative site was not feasible given the timing and logistics of progressing such a major proposal.  A significant amount of time had already been taken in developing the various Acute Services Review proposals and it was imperative that the timetable set out for completing the Outline Business Case was not jeopardised.    The Group, however, agreed the first part of Dr Dunn's revised Option D should remain and be augmented to confirm that under this option "the integrity of services at Stobhill would be maintained during the period of construction".    

Mrs P McNeil MSP sought clarification with regard to the use of the terms "casualty" and "minor injuries" within the options and highlighted the absolute need for the Group to agree a form of words which ensured clarify and consistency, not just for the north and east but across the city. Miss Boyle confirmed that at the briefing workshop (Workshop B) part of the information shared with attendees would address this important issue.     

Mrs McNeil also sought clarification with regard to the sizing of the Accident & Emergency Department at Glasgow Royal Infirmary and Miss Boyle confirmed that this work was being progressed via the Acute Services Review Accident and Emergency Sub Committee and would take account of the expansion requirements to support the option agreed.  

There was long and wide ranging debate about the choices to be appraised on 28th September and these were agreed as follows:

a)  Glasgow Royal Infirmary as the inpatient site for the North and East.  Stobhill as walk-in, walk-out same day Diagnostic & Treatment Centre (ACAD) with minor injuries service.  GRI would need new ward block and support service facilities to accommodate the extra workload.

b)  Glasgow Royal Infirmary as a specialist hospital.  New build at Stobhill as the District General Hospital for North and East with integrated ambulatory care services.

c)  Stobhill as a local hospital providing General Medicine and General Surgery Services with a walk-in, walk-out same day Diagnostic Treatment Centre (ACAD) and emergency medical and surgical receiving and minor injuries.  The hospital inpatient facility would comprise the current wards but it is envisaged that the hospital would be slimmed down with the likelihood of a number of small inpatient services moving off site.  Glasgow Royal Infirmary would in this model also retain its present role, with a major specialist commitment and the other developments in Orthopaedics, Obstetrics and in the Trauma Centre which are already underway. This model includes additional new buildings at the GRI to allow those services still using old buildings at the Cathedral end of the site to move into new buildings.

d)  This would be the same as Option C with the exception that it would be a new hospital at Stobhill which would incorporate the ACAD.  Under this option the integrity of services at Stobhill would be maintained during the period of construction.

Miss Boyle highlighted that an information pack would be circulated to delegates in advance of  Workshop B.  This would provide a range of information, including detailed information  on the various options, for example, the specialist services to provided at Glasgow Royal Infirmary under Option B.   This information pack was being compiled by the Project Team established by the Trust to develop the north east business case.    The Group noted that the Project Team had done a significant amount of work on the implications of the various options and the outcome of this work would also be shared at the briefing workshop.

(ii) Update on Option Appraisal Workshops

Mr Hamilton highlighted that following discussion at the Reference Group's July meeting when it had been agreed that the benefits criteria workshop be conducted first and feedback from this presented to the introductory workshop then the sequence of workshops had been changed to reflect this.  

Workshop A  -  Service Benefits and Weighting  (Glasgow Wide) - 7 September
(9 - 4.30pm) at Celtic Park
Mr Spry tabled a paper which set out attendees at this workshop.  In relation to Local Authorities, Mr Spry confirmed that he had conveyed the Reference Group's preference with regard to representatives being elected Councillors. 

The group noted that, despite this, in the case of Glasgow and South Lanarkshire management representative had been put forward. 

With regard to attendance at Workshop A, members undertook to contact Tricia Duncan (211.4205) to confirm if they would be attending this event in an observatory capacity.   MSPs undertook to advise whether they would be attending as participants or observors.    

In response to a question from Mr Hunter with regard to whether members could in fact attend Workshop A and still participate in Workshop C, Miss Boyle confirmed that this was acceptable.  Mr Hamilton took the opportunity to remind members of the Reference Group that they were free to attend all of the workshop events.

Dr Dunn highlighted the difficulties associated with clinicians being free to attend both Workshops B and C.   Miss Boyle acknowledged the difficulties associated with this but given the importance of these events urged clinical colleagues to attend wherever possible.     Miss Boyle also indicated her willingness to do "mini" briefing session in advance of 28th September and Dr Dunn agreed to liaise with Jennifer Armstrong/Heather Knox in order to set these up.

Workshop B (briefing event)
To be held on Monday, 17 September  (9.00 - 4.30pm) at Hampden Park.

Workshop C - north east scoring event - Friday, 28 September (9 - 5pm)
at Hampden park
Miss Boyle reminded the group of the discussion at  its July meeting when it had been agreed that options be prepared for the group's consideration with regard to a 50:50 split of public and NHS representatives at Workshop C.   Miss Boyle tabled two options, with the principal difference being that in option one, Community Councils would be offered 2 places each, with the second option offering only 1 place per Council but leaving places available for the Reference Group to allocate at its discretion.  The group agreed that option one (copy attached), that is, 100 public and 100 NHS representatives, ensured equity and a good balance of representatives across the NHS and public sector.  Mr Fitzpatrick highlighted that it was imperative that there was good community representation from all of the areas within the Stobhill and Glasgow Royal Infirmary catchment areas and, in particular, highlighted that there are no SIPs in East Dunbartonshire.   The group endorsed Mr Fitzpatrick's comments and agreed that when nominations from community councils et al was clearer these should be mapped to ensure equitable representation.  If it proved there was no representation from any particular sector then Tricia Duncan would speak with relevant members of the reference group in an attempt to redress the balance.       

With regard to Partnership representatives, Bill Goudie undertook to liaise with
Tricia Duncan to agree attendees. 



Miss Boyle tabled a paper which updated the group on the current situation and future plans for the ACAD project.   As a consequence of discussions with the Reference Group, ACAD Project Board, GGHB and the Scottish Executive, the Trust had agreed to refocus its work on the development of ACAD until the outcome of the option appraisal process for the North had concluded.   As a result of this the ACAD Project Team would now refocus its agenda to concentrate on the areas of service redesign that need to be considered.  Miss Boyle highlighted that the ACAD and ASR Project Teams were now working together to progress this work in parallel.  The group noted the final work schedule would be agreed with the ACAD project board and would contribute to the work of the Reference Group.

Mr Fitzpatrick asked if there would be information on ACAD circulated in advance of the workshop and Miss Boyle confirmed that this would form part of the briefing pack to be circulated in advance of Workshop B.



Mr Spry sought the Group's agreement that, as he had done following the group's previous two meetings, he issue a brief statement highlighting the key decisions from today's meeting.  The Group welcomed this approach.  


Any Other Business




A joint meeting of the North East and South Reference Groups will be held on Friday 14 September at 10.30am in the Committee Room, Southern General Hospital.  The   purpose of this meeting will be to feedback on the outputs from Workshop A.

Further Information:  if you require any further information in advance of the meeting, please contact Patricia Duncan, Trust Headquarters, 0141-201-4205.


Last modified: November 13, 2002

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